Hank Reinhardt, Oxford Georgia USA
In my seventy years I have read many editorials and comments espousing all sorts of positions. Some have been superb, some have been lousy, but I am hard pressed to find one to compare with Guy’s latest editorial. It is beyond compare! It is magnificent! Never have I encountered one piece that is so filled with ignorance, hypocrisy, absurd exaggeration and just pure drivel.
Lest I be accused of exaggerating the content, let us take it bit by bit.
The first paragraph deals with a photo I haven’t seen. I cannot state an opinion about the woman looks like, nor the condition of the body. What I can state is that people have been taking pictures like this since the camera was invented. And there are the same kind of photos from every war on every continent. People take trophies; in the past they have taken scalps, heads, ears, fingers, you name it. It is a common practice, like it or not. As for Americans not doing things like that: Utter nonsense. Americans have always done things like that. The only people who don’t do things like that are the ones who are beaten, and don’t get the opportunity.
You don’t like the idea of a pretty woman doing it: take women out of the Army in combat positions. [Note from Toni: I think you have also misinterpreted the photo. If it’s the one I’m thinking of, she is not looming over a dead man, but merely a naked one.] [Reply to Toni’s note: Alas, that was a corpse, identified by his son as Munadil al-Jumaily; he wasn’t even political.]
I do not know where Guy gets the idea that we are a happy, pretty, superior people. We were never a happy, pretty, superior people. We were hard working, driven, self reliant and independent, and we devised a system that has provided for the greatest good for the greatest number. Now we’re a bunch of fat, lazy slobs who sit around and whine about the brutality of the US, all the while ignoring the brutality, much, much worse, that goes on in the rest of the world.
In his effulgence, Guy seems to equate My Lai with Abu Ghraib. The prisoners at Abu Ghraib were humiliated and abused. They may have been deprived of sleep, yelled at, slapped, made to stand for long periods and other unpleasant things. To equate this with .223 rounds tearing into bodies of women, old men and children is childish beyond belief. To even call this torture is equally absurd! I wonder if he has seen the videos of the guy being beaten by Saddam Hussein’s men with a flexible shaft on the kidney? The torturer uses slow methodical blows, designed to bring a lot of pain and eventual death from kidney failure. How about the guys being tossed off of the roof, so that they bounce when they hit some 50 feet later? Here’s another nice one: propping open the victim’s mouth and drilling out all of his teeth. That is torture. And all done by Saddam Hussein and documented by him. I suggest that Guy think about which one he had rather undergo. Senator Kennedy also calls what went on at Abu Ghraib torture. This is the noble politician who let a young girl smother (or drown, autopsy report was conveniently lost) while he talked with his advisors about saving his political career. So he’d know about torture, I guess.
Since this is a political rant, I have no problems with talking politics myself. Guy compares what went on at Abu Ghraib with the My Lai massacre: that was a Democratic war, under a Democratic controlled House and Senate. Was that a “corrupt war” that “corrupts its warriors”? If so, whose fault was it? Oh yeah, let’s not forget that it was an American soldier who stopped further atrocity at My Lai, by ordering his men to fire on the GI’s who were doing the killing. So you have both low and noble actions there, both from the same side.
What I find staggering is the sheer hypocrisy revealed here masquerading as a noble sentiment representing all Americans. Where was the call for the “suits” to be charged when a 14-year-old boy was shot in the back by U.S. government agents? When a mother, holding an infant in her arms, had her head blown off! That all happened right here. Oh, the government admitted no wrongdoing, but they awarded three million dollars to the family. The Clinton-appointed judges agreed that the FBI agent who killed the mother, and the BATF agent who killed the boy should not be charged. Or what about Waco, where a small sect of people were annihilated for a photo op! (You don’t think it was a photo op: Consider a bad warrant, on things which were perfectly legal, local news agencies notified before the raid so that they could have helicopters and cameras there.) The few survivors stated the government fired first, and pointed as evidence to the steel door. What, the steel door had vanished, how odd! The government said that there were tons and tons of illegal weapons and ammunition there, but no one saw it. After all, you can trust your government! As for the soldier pointing his weapon at Iraqis, how about the US marshal pointing his weapon at a family in a late night raid to steal a child to give it back to Castro?
How about it, Guy? Did you call for the resignation of Bill Clinton and Janet Reno? Did you scream about the child killers being let off and even promoted?
As for Abu Ghraib, the trial and investigation is already underway—it got underway one day after the trouble there was reported. Sound like a cover-up to you? And the investigation was underway before the story broke. The photos were from the investigation. In this case, the system worked to correct itself.
As for the question about bullies and thugs, hell yes! That is what a very large percentage of this country happens to be, what a large percentage of the human race happens to be.
I would strongly suggest that Guy grow up, take a look at reality, and quit his childish whining because things didn’t go his way.
Lest I be accused of exaggerating the content, let us take it bit by bit.
The first paragraph deals with a photo I haven’t seen. I cannot state an opinion about the woman looks like, nor the condition of the body. What I can state is that people have been taking pictures like this since the camera was invented. And there are the same kind of photos from every war on every continent. People take trophies; in the past they have taken scalps, heads, ears, fingers, you name it. It is a common practice, like it or not. As for Americans not doing things like that: Utter nonsense. Americans have always done things like that. The only people who don’t do things like that are the ones who are beaten, and don’t get the opportunity.
You don’t like the idea of a pretty woman doing it: take women out of the Army in combat positions. [Note from Toni: I think you have also misinterpreted the photo. If it’s the one I’m thinking of, she is not looming over a dead man, but merely a naked one.] [Reply to Toni’s note: Alas, that was a corpse, identified by his son as Munadil al-Jumaily; he wasn’t even political.]
I do not know where Guy gets the idea that we are a happy, pretty, superior people. We were never a happy, pretty, superior people. We were hard working, driven, self reliant and independent, and we devised a system that has provided for the greatest good for the greatest number. Now we’re a bunch of fat, lazy slobs who sit around and whine about the brutality of the US, all the while ignoring the brutality, much, much worse, that goes on in the rest of the world.
In his effulgence, Guy seems to equate My Lai with Abu Ghraib. The prisoners at Abu Ghraib were humiliated and abused. They may have been deprived of sleep, yelled at, slapped, made to stand for long periods and other unpleasant things. To equate this with .223 rounds tearing into bodies of women, old men and children is childish beyond belief. To even call this torture is equally absurd! I wonder if he has seen the videos of the guy being beaten by Saddam Hussein’s men with a flexible shaft on the kidney? The torturer uses slow methodical blows, designed to bring a lot of pain and eventual death from kidney failure. How about the guys being tossed off of the roof, so that they bounce when they hit some 50 feet later? Here’s another nice one: propping open the victim’s mouth and drilling out all of his teeth. That is torture. And all done by Saddam Hussein and documented by him. I suggest that Guy think about which one he had rather undergo. Senator Kennedy also calls what went on at Abu Ghraib torture. This is the noble politician who let a young girl smother (or drown, autopsy report was conveniently lost) while he talked with his advisors about saving his political career. So he’d know about torture, I guess.
This repulsive argument is like looking at the average drug killing and saying, “You call that a murder?” while holding up a photo of Ted Bundy. Torture is unacceptable.
Since this is a political rant, I have no problems with talking politics myself. Guy compares what went on at Abu Ghraib with the My Lai massacre: that was a Democratic war, under a Democratic controlled House and Senate. Was that a “corrupt war” that “corrupts its warriors”? If so, whose fault was it? Oh yeah, let’s not forget that it was an American soldier who stopped further atrocity at My Lai, by ordering his men to fire on the GI’s who were doing the killing. So you have both low and noble actions there, both from the same side.
One such guy is worth ten thousand Calleys.
What I find staggering is the sheer hypocrisy revealed here masquerading as a noble sentiment representing all Americans. Where was the call for the “suits” to be charged when a 14-year-old boy was shot in the back by U.S. government agents? When a mother, holding an infant in her arms, had her head blown off! That all happened right here. Oh, the government admitted no wrongdoing, but they awarded three million dollars to the family. The Clinton-appointed judges agreed that the FBI agent who killed the mother, and the BATF agent who killed the boy should not be charged. Or what about Waco, where a small sect of people were annihilated for a photo op! (You don’t think it was a photo op: Consider a bad warrant, on things which were perfectly legal, local news agencies notified before the raid so that they could have helicopters and cameras there.) The few survivors stated the government fired first, and pointed as evidence to the steel door. What, the steel door had vanished, how odd! The government said that there were tons and tons of illegal weapons and ammunition there, but no one saw it. After all, you can trust your government! As for the soldier pointing his weapon at Iraqis, how about the US marshal pointing his weapon at a family in a late night raid to steal a child to give it back to Castro?
The child was forcibly returned to his father after his late mother’s fanatic relatives refused to release him. It was absolutely the right thing to do. What the fuck does it have to do with Abu Ghraib?
How about it, Guy? Did you call for the resignation of Bill Clinton and Janet Reno? Did you scream about the child killers being let off and even promoted?
I’ve found two occasions on which I responded to Waco, both in apazines for the Southern Fandom Press Alliance. In
Spiritus Mundi 139, January ‘94, I told Toni Weisskopf (who would later become your wife): “The more I think about the Waco/Branch Davidians disaster, the more disturbed I am. Clearly, the ATF botched its investigation and its assault, and if it turns out that the fire was started not by Koresh, but by government klutziness, I won’t be surprised. ... Now, do I blame Janet Reno? No. She was new to the Attorney Generalship at the time ... was given atrocious advice, and once the damage became known, owned up to responsibility. But somebody screwed up ... very badly. That head should roll.” A year and a half later, in SM149, I said, “What was inexcusable about Waco was the clumsiness of the authorities.” Indeed; David Koresh could have and should have been thrown into cuffs long before he locked himself in with his cult. No excuse for letting that child molesting lunatic endanger others. I went on to say, “Worse in that regard was the assault on the paranoid winger family at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, by the FBI, an attack which left a federal officer and two members of the family dead. Law enforcement is a legitimate end, but it must be accomplished by rational and disciplined means. The addled cowboys who raided Ruby Ridge had neither legitimate ends nor sensible means on their side; it’s not against the law to be paranoid wingers and it’s not good cop work to shoot women with babes in arms when you’re firing at someone else. Hell should pay.” I still feel that way, about both Waco and Ruby Ridge – the authorities in both incidents demonstrated utter incompetence in the field, and inept supervision and confused guidance from above. Nevertheless, I still think well of Reno for taking responsibility – something Rumsfeld and his stoat of a boss still haven’t done.
Spiritus Mundi 139, January ‘94, I told Toni Weisskopf (who would later become your wife): “The more I think about the Waco/Branch Davidians disaster, the more disturbed I am. Clearly, the ATF botched its investigation and its assault, and if it turns out that the fire was started not by Koresh, but by government klutziness, I won’t be surprised. ... Now, do I blame Janet Reno? No. She was new to the Attorney Generalship at the time ... was given atrocious advice, and once the damage became known, owned up to responsibility. But somebody screwed up ... very badly. That head should roll.” A year and a half later, in SM149, I said, “What was inexcusable about Waco was the clumsiness of the authorities.” Indeed; David Koresh could have and should have been thrown into cuffs long before he locked himself in with his cult. No excuse for letting that child molesting lunatic endanger others. I went on to say, “Worse in that regard was the assault on the paranoid winger family at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, by the FBI, an attack which left a federal officer and two members of the family dead. Law enforcement is a legitimate end, but it must be accomplished by rational and disciplined means. The addled cowboys who raided Ruby Ridge had neither legitimate ends nor sensible means on their side; it’s not against the law to be paranoid wingers and it’s not good cop work to shoot women with babes in arms when you’re firing at someone else. Hell should pay.” I still feel that way, about both Waco and Ruby Ridge – the authorities in both incidents demonstrated utter incompetence in the field, and inept supervision and confused guidance from above. Nevertheless, I still think well of Reno for taking responsibility – something Rumsfeld and his stoat of a boss still haven’t done.
As for Abu Ghraib, the trial and investigation is already underway—it got underway one day after the trouble there was reported. Sound like a cover-up to you? And the investigation was underway before the story broke. The photos were from the investigation. In this case, the system worked to correct itself.
Or to protect itself. At last we reach the key question. The cretins who did the torturing at Abu Ghraib are being punished. But how is that obscenity related to the Justice Department memoranda referring to the Geneva accords as “quaint”? Why were government intelligence agents on hand during the abuse?
As for the question about bullies and thugs, hell yes! That is what a very large percentage of this country happens to be, what a large percentage of the human race happens to be.
Not me. Nor my country, either, not that I have anything to say about it.
I would strongly suggest that Guy grow up, take a look at reality, and quit his childish whining because things didn’t go his way.
Call it what you will, but no way. No way should any citizen quit demanding that his country behave in a fashion that reflects well upon it and upon human beings. Abu Ghraib and the whole Iraqi debacle do neither.
posted by ;-p at 11:37 PM
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